Can I Trust My Baby?

In this episode of Milk Minute, we’re diving into a question that’s on every new mom’s mind: “Is my baby getting enough milk?” Join your favorite midwives and lactation consultants for a laid-back chat about decoding those feeding cues and boosting your breastfeeding confidence.

We’ll share easy tips on what to look for to feel confident your baby’s feeding well and when it might be time to reach out for a lactation consultant. You’re not alone in this—let’s figure it out together! Tune in for some friendly advice and a whole lot of support.

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Listener question: If you sneeze while you’re pumping, does it make the milk come out faster like when you pee?

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Transcript

Hey everybody, welcome back to the Milk Minute Podcast. We have a very, like, intimate episode for you tonight. It's like the nighttime, dark and stormy, cricket edition. Maureen and I are sitting in my basement. We're having a sleepover, and the windows are open, and we're hearing the late summer noises, and it's actually kind of nice, and if we squint real hard, we can pretend like none of my family's here.

Can I squint my ears too? I hope so. Cause we're recording. So sorry. And we're also trying to be quiet because we're like underneath Marty's room. We're making it happen for you. So I'm sick of your complaining. Just kidding. You guys are always good. I did consider. Going back into the alcove. I can see it from here, our original recording space, but it's sort of just like where Heather's been shoving shit she doesn't want to look at anymore, and I just didn't want to move it.

Yeah. I was not about that life. It's all the toys that I keep trying to take to Goodwill, but the kids keep finding before I can actually get them there, and then they drag it back out. I hate that. I, honestly, what I do, Heather, is I put, I, like, every, well, first of all, once a month, I just fill a trash bag from the house.

Okay, toys, whatever. And usually broken stuff. And I'm like, I don't care if the kids miss it, it's gone. But then I also try to fill a box of toys that I think they might miss, and then I put them in the shed. Smart. And then if they haven't asked about them by the time I remember it's there again, which is usually like three months later, then I bring it to Goodwill.

That's really smart. You know, I saw this girl, I was actually laughing at myself this morning, That I keep remembering this. It's not even that important, but I saw this interview on the today show, like years ago of this crazy hippie girl who could collect all the garbage she's ever used in the past year in a tiny little jar.

I have seen that. And I think about that girl. A lot. Like every time I'm throwing, like, did she not have children? No, of course not. But every single time I'm taking out like my second garbage bag full of shit for the day, I'm like, how did that girl? Honestly, it has to like, become your whole life. And you, frankly, you also have to have access to like food sources that don't come in disposable packaging.

Yeah. I mean, just like not here. Not even close. No. Yeah. But anyway, I digress. Anyway, I was just saying, don't feel guilty. We'll figure it out one day when our kids are adults or something. Okay. I don't know. Let's just black out. Yeah, and I don't know if you guys could tell just by the general vibe we have going on here, but you might be getting more episodes like this where we're in random places.

We might even be in a car if we both lose our minds and drive like Thelma and Louise somewhere. We just drive to the ocean. We were just talking about how much we miss the ocean and how like We have basically all of the other like, Stuff we want here, but that, yeah, we're both water babies, but we're going to keep trying to make these episodes every Friday for you.

But that means we have to be really flexible with where and when we are able to record. We just can't do batch recording anymore. It just has not worked. That's what we used to do. So we're just, we're doing this now. Yeah. And by the way, today's episode, we're going to talk about whether or not you can trust your baby.

Mm hmm, yep, so this is a very common thing that probably gets brought up in 75 percent of my visits. Yeah, and I'm going to say most of the time in the first month. Yeah. Oh, definitely. And definitely with first babies and definitely with subsequent babies that did not act like the first baby acted. Yeah.

And by trust your baby, we mean about whether they are eating enough, whether their cues about sleep and food and stuff like that are accurate. Mm hmm. Because that can get really muddy sometimes. So we're going to kind of go through. What it looks like to have a baby that we feel like is sort of you can trust what you're seeing and then some of the Things that would make us less trustworthy Yeah, or your baby less trustworthy like, you know We're just gonna kind of go through like a checklist of things that make us less trustworthy us as lactation professionals, kind of like a raisin eyebrow while we're listening.

Yeah. And hopefully by the end of this episode, you either feel really confident that everything's fine and you're on the right track and you know, you understand what to look for if it starts to not look like that. And also on the flip side, If your baby is checking every single box on the untrustworthy list, whether or not they are objectively fine, you should be getting a lactation consult.

Yeah. And honestly, a lot of the time with that, those are the parents I see where they're like, I actually raised concerns with two or three different providers and they all said it was fine because I just don't feel like it is. So, so we're going to talk about like when to trust that gut feeling, which honestly we put a lot of stock in.

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. As midwives. Yeah. We're midwives first, lactation consultants second, and as midwives, I can't tell you how much we have to trust those little gut instincts that the moms have, especially when you're out of hospital. Yeah. We have found that moms are almost never wrong. They may not be able to tell you exactly what it is, but they know when something's off.

Honestly, it's really interesting to digress just a little bit. But when you look at Things like warning signs, like objectively on like the ACOG website or something, like warning signs of these really catastrophic birth issues. They'll have things like impending feeling of doom and you're like, that's not an objective sign, but also yes.

Yeah, like that is actually the first sign of all of these issues. So like, We trust your gut. Yeah. We trust our guts sometimes also. Also, it's never wrong to go to your pediatrician. Yeah. If you're worried. Go 10, 000 times if you need to. That's what they're there for. Yeah. And frankly, if you have a, a healthcare provider for your baby that makes you feel silly for coming in when they think nothing's wrong, then I want you to think about getting another provider.

If that's available to you. Yep, you know what we always say, you should always leave the pediatrician and any provider feeling better than when you came in. Yes. Every time. And if you consistently feel shittier when you leave, it's time to switch. Yep. Alright, well let's begin, Heather. Let's talk about Wait, we have a question.

Oh! Julie's question. I forgot. Julie. Okay. A reminder Julie. Julie is Heather's like office manager. And she knows she, which is funny. She runs, she helps. She basically runs this breastfeeding clinic for us and has the most off the wall question. So what is Julie's question? Julie does not have any children and.

Before this, she did a lot of retail and bartending and serving. So she's like been in customer service forever, but, and she's like down for anything. She'll figure anything out. And she's got a lot of questions, but this is like pretty new to her. And so today from the other side of the office, she could hear that I was pumping and I sneezed at the same time.

And she yells, Hey, when you sneeze, when you're pumping, does it make the milk speed up? Like when you pee pee.

And I looked down just to check. I was like, I don't know. And I looked down and I said, nope. But she goes weird. What if it did? I see, I see why she would ask that. Cause it feels like if you're ejecting fluids from your body, that increase in like intra-abdominal pressure would simply make them go faster.

However, not true because essentially like you're. Your mammary glands are like so isolated from the rest of your torso, I mean they're like balls, they're like hanging off, you know? They're like not very integrated into the like thoracic cavity. Chest accoutrement. My chesticles. Yeah, I was actually just thinking about how, like, I guess you could sneeze and shit yourself.

But then I'm like, well, I guess then you'd have to have a weak pelvic floor. And then I said to myself just now, well, what about the people that leak breast milk all the time? Like, do they have a weak breast floor? Do they have a weak breast floor that just like lets it fall out? Different mechanism of action there, I think.

I know, I know, but I had to get there in my brain. But anyway, yeah, no, I wish. Shit. That would be hilarious, but no. Can you imagine having like a sneezing fit where you sneeze like six times and milk just like shoots up your breasts?

Actually, that would be great. That would be really funny. That's, but when she asks me these questions, I always laugh so hard because I'm like, you gotta know that that's what men are thinking. You know, they probably have all of these thoughts. Julie, the window into the mind of a man. Kind of, actually.

She is a little bit of a pervert, but anyway, childless cat lady. She won't have a cat. She doesn't have a cat. She won't get one anymore because she had a cat that she was in love with named Ho Cat. Because she used to be the slut of the neighborhood. And they rescued her. She had like 75 litters of kittens and then they were like, we'll take in Ho Cat.

And then Julie accidentally ran her over by the car. And it was the worst day of her life and she can't ever have another animal. So she is a plant lady. She's a plant lady. She can't, if anyone brings up cats, she just goes, and she just walks away. She's so traumatized. Anyway, if we keep telling you about Julie, I'm going to cry from laughter.

So back to the topic of conversation today. Okay. So let's start with what a baby looks like when we do trust them. And let's also acknowledge that every single mom Of all time always has that question in the back of their mind. If I can't see it going into the baby, how do I know how much they're getting?

So that's where this stems from. It's this biological seed that's planted in your brain when you have a baby and it makes you think about it all the time because it wants you to keep this thing alive. That's, that becomes the objective. And that's the thing that we latch onto. No pun intended. Yeah, so usually the babies that I look at, and I'm like, we're good, we're looking at term babies who are appropriately sized for gestational age, which is Usually six to nine pounds, but with the caveat that like a six pounder at 42 weeks would have me scratching my head.

Mm hmm. And these are babies that, I think one of the keys for me, is that they finish the feed themselves. And they are satisfied after, and they have like an appropriate window between feeds. And what we mean by that is that they are following the appropriate timeline for what's appropriate during that time.

So like day one, we're seeing, you know, we're rarely do we have issues with a term baby day one with like feeding, you know, like sometimes, you know, We do, but really that starts day two is when things can start getting a little bit hairy, because if their term they're born with enough brown fat on their body to last about 24 hours without food.

But that aside, that's a whole other conversation. Day two, we have a cluster feed. And then day three, when the milk comes in, and we are four or five, I think what it is, yeah, at some point over those few days when the milk comes in, we see the baby's feeding pattern start to change. We see the poop change.

We see the alertness change. And then we're kind of in this like first week situation of just kind of following the baby's cues. And it's a mess where that we're like, it's all over the place. And honestly, it's like kind of like the first three weeks. Right? Right. But the two week cluster feed is important.

It is, but a lot of the time what these feeds look like is, you know, they might vary in length between like five to 30 minutes, but they are coordinated. Baby is focused on feeding. You can hear them swallow. And what I really like to see. And, of course, every baby doesn't do this, so don't freak out, but what I really like to see is that at the end, when it looks like baby's done, you can pop them off and they relax.

Mm hmm. You put them up on your chest, and they're not rooting again, and they're not tense, they're relaxed, they've got maybe a little bit of milk dribbling out of their mouth, and I know everyone's obsessed with the hands being open, you know, sometimes the hands are open, sometimes they're not. Yeah, sometimes they are, sometimes they're not.

I just look at like kind of the overall muscle tone, right? Cause a lot of the time these babies will still have some tone. where they're flexed a little bit, but they're not tense. They're not super, super hyper flexed, right? And these babies also, most of the time are not jaundice. If they're falling asleep at the breast, it's after 10 minutes or so.

And then they might, when you go to burp them, wake up a little bit and then finish the other side, but they're not. Bright yellow and like falling asleep in the first couple minutes And then and we're seeing appropriate weight gain and we are seeing lots of poops and pees Because sometimes we'll see babies where everything looks okay, and then I ask about diaper count and I'm like Let's look a little deeper into that, because that's not what I would expect to see out of a baby if everything else you said is true.

Yeah, so, just a reminder, we want one diaper, one wet diaper on day one, two on day two, three diapers on, three wet diapers on day three, four on four, five on five, six on six, and six Yeah. Every time after that. Yeah, that's kind of the minimum output going forward. And then most babies, the first couple days are kind of weird with poops.

Sometimes there's a lot, sometimes there's a few. But we like to see a minimum of one per day, but honestly, the babies who are thriving usually poop multiple times every day, when they are that little. Yeah, it's kind of like a plumbing issue. You know, like if we are seeing a lot of poops, that means we're having a lot of input in the faucet, that is their GI system.

And also the poop is changing color with the milk coming in. So it's going from meconium to that army slimy green to more of like a seedy yellow green. Mustard. To orange to yellow and seedy. And then it should stay yellow and seedy. Some variation of yellowish. And then, as the days go on, baby is getting more alert, not less alert.

Absolutely. You see wake windows are getting longer, you know, and eventually we kind of co elate into sort of a predictable awake and sleep pattern, honestly, by like somewhere around three months. Yep. So it's totally okay. If before then and even around then, baby's a little unpredictable. And this is also why, like, scheduling feeds early on is really hard and sometimes leads to weight loss.

Because we're just trying to figure out what baby actually needs and they should be the driving force. And if we can trust them, and that basically means when it comes down to it that their brain is firing on all cylinders and they are able to neurologically communicate with us through reflexes, then we are good to go.

Yeah, so as long as they're neurologically intact, we should trust them. To demand the food and then we supply it. So we always say supply and demand, but really it's demand and supply. When we feed on a schedule, we might be missing some of those cues. We might be accidentally pushing them a little too hard, you know, especially with the feed 15 minutes on each side.

And it's like, what if they can't? And honestly, a lot of the time I see like, If we're feeding on a schedule and, say, trying to feed a baby that's not hungry, we, they get really tired. Yeah. And we're like, wake up and eat! And then by the time they are hungry, they're too tired to eat. Yeah, I think we're, like, sneaking into that next section of, like, what's not trustworthy.

Let's move on to it! So let's kind of move on. Number one is that for me. So like beyond all of the other things, if baby is communicating that they're too sleepy to eat, we should let huge red flag, we should listen, right? Because that tells us they're not getting enough food, or there's a different physiologic problem, right?

So if I hear a mom say, I still have to wake him up every three hours, Hmm. All through the night and all through the day. I'm scared. I'm like, Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. And then if they're like, Oh, and he'll nurse for five minutes and then he'll fall asleep and then we're, we've got pediatricians often being like, take a cold, wet wipe to them or turn the air down, get them naked.

Okay. First of all, that's stressful. And it feels like you're torturing your kid. And if you feel like you have to do all of those things to manipulate your baby, And their brain into having a complete feeding, something's wrong. Well, yeah, and it's one thing if, you know, we have to do that once a night, say, to get them to feed a little extra.

But if it's like that every single feeding or most of them, I don't like that. Especially if they were more alert and now they're getting more sleepy. Yes. And we need to do something to get more food into them. In a way that is not stressful. Yeah. You know, sometimes we have to really like do big interventions then.

Yeah. So I'll have parents come in in my clinic and they'll feed for five minutes and the baby just like totally passes out and they're like, so do you think he got enough? And I'm like, no, probably not. And then we do a weighted feed and I'm like, he took eight milliliters and I'm like, which is fine. And then they start panicking and I'm like, it's all good.

He's just telling us he's not ready. So let's pump. And let's give him some milk and a syringe and then we're taking it like feed by feed. And honestly, sometimes it only takes a couple days to turn it around very quickly. But yeah, I think what's really crucial is the timing of these interventions because sometimes we'll have parents who are in this situation.

They go to the pediatrician, wait is technically fine. Output is technically fine and they're sent home. And then by the time we get help, we have moved way beyond a simple intervention. Yeah, so that brings us to the lack of resources in baby to maintain the plan. So this is the next thing that we're kind of looking at where if your baby was born less than six pounds, For sure, if your baby is a pre termer, so before 37 weeks, and honestly, some of those 37 weekers are a little bit Yeah, and really, some of those lower 6 pound babies too will fall into this category.

I mean, it might have been fine on its own, but then you add a little jaundice. And now we're like super tired. Yes, babies who are jaundiced, I basically never trust them to sleep the right amount of time. Yeah, which is fine because it's a temporary thing if we get ahead of it. And it's really something, sleepy babies are a red flag for us.

Right, and sometimes it's okay, but a sleepy baby who is jaundiced, a sleepy baby who is small, a sleepy baby who will not complete a feed, Those are all bad things. So what I like to explain to people is what I'm seeing when I see a baby who's nursing really good at first and then within a few minutes they start to pass out.

I'm like, okay, so what I'm seeing here is your kid is entering power saving mode. Yeah. And if you imagine, and this is kind of like weird to think about, but they've actually done tests on rats this way, where they like make them tread water. And then they're, if they remove the exit and then the rat can't see that there's an exit, the rat will almost immediately stop paddling and just float.

But the minute the rat sees that there's an exit, it will start paddling. paddling again. And so they save power because they have to make a choice. And when your baby knows that it doesn't have a lot of resources, it's going to enter power saving mode when it realizes that it's burning more calories than it's taking in.

You know, on the flip side, since you mentioned that the other babies I don't trust are the ones that feed every 30 minutes, every hour. They feed for 45 minutes at a time. And there's the parents that come in and I'm like, you look tired. Hey queen. And you ask how many times a day they feed. And 75, there is no time.

We're not feeding. That is a huge red flag to me because that tells me there is something about the transfer of milk, whether it's the amount of milk that exists or the way it's getting into baby. Or whatever, something in that transportation process is not working and we are a hungry baby. Well, that's the baby that's still treading water.

Yes. That's the baby that's like, no, no, no, I'm going to get it. I'm going to get it. I'm going to get it. But then eventually they stop. And they Right. Then we have like the baby that, oh yeah, now, oh, it's better. It's better. But now we're dropping on the growth curve because the baby just gives up. And what I see a lot of the time is we have this very fussy baby that is very stressful.

Oh, their eyes are like wide open. Feeds all the time. Right. You know, parents come in and they're like, What is, my baby is colicky. They're very upset. And then, they're like, Oh, you know what? They're sleeping really good now. And I'm like, and I'm like, are they tell me more? Because is it that they actually just got over some hump and they're feeding normally and sleeping normally?

Or are they becoming a in trouble, sleepy baby. And those are the babies. They're wedding exactly six diapers having. One poop every two days, you know, it's really, really thick and, and they're, yeah, they're just slowly falling into like a bigger and bigger crisis and it can be really hard to identify and it will really depend on how the provider that these parents are seeing likes to handle that.

And whether or not they believe in oral restrictions. Right, right. And, and whether or not they're the kind of, Provider that's like, Oh, one thing is abnormal. Let's treat it preventatively or as if it's a disease that it's not. Or are they the kind of provider like that's like, Oh, there's a really, really big range of normal and I don't see anything wrong.

And you know, we'll treat it when it's a problem. Kind of both of those are not great. Yeah. Because then it's like, well, see you at your four month and then you go to your four months and they're like, Oh my gosh, your baby's so underweight. And what have you done? And you're like, Oh my God, you said we were fine.

Right. And we see this a lot where. Babies come in at four to six months and they are considered failure to thrive. We now have parents who thought they were doing totally fine exclusively on breast milk and now have basically been told to change everything. And those are the parents also who are like The baby never cues me, right?

Like they never show me that they're hungry and they always seem satisfied after feedings. And then we do a weighted feed and they transfer less than two ounces. And I'm like, yeah, because they have adjusted their fullness centers down to a very low baseline. Yeah, because they're very adaptable. Yeah. And they're little survivalists.

We love that. And however, We want to help them thrive and not just survive. Yeah. And we want to do that early because the earlier we fix that, the shorter duration of intervention we need to do. And often the interventions we do are temporary, like there, there's something we do for two days, two weeks, rather than well, we're going to do this for a month and see how it goes, or two months and see how it goes.

But man, parents really are falling through the cracks between that two week and, You know, four month visit with babies, and that's really these kind of babies that I see and I just yeah, I'm worried about they're three weeks old. They're four weeks old. Yeah, well, this is why, like, when I do my initial assessment, say, like, I know it's an IUGR baby that was born five pounds.

I just tell them, I'm like, listen, I'm not fucking around. You know, let's protect the milk supply and feed the baby. And this baby straight out of the gate for me, not trustworthy. They're five pounds. They don't have a lot of resources left to actually feed at the breast. And that's okay because they gain an ounce a day, sometimes more because when they're behind like that.

They will sometimes do double duty and they'll gain two ounces a day and then before you know it we give them the opportunity Right and before you know it in two weeks They're suddenly like all better and so that two weeks of doing a little bit more first two weeks are crucial. Yep, and It's really It's really, it's difficult to identify the babies that do need help in that time period when so many of them look like they're okay.

But some of those babies are okay heading downward, and some are okay heading upward, but a lot of them look really similar. A lot of babies are going to be a little bit sleepy, a lot of them are going to have some feeding trouble, a lot of them are going to be a little fussy, a lot of them are going to have short feeds versus long feeds, you know.

And I think really, the, the reality is, you know, we wanted to do this episode to just say hey, if you've got a small baby, if you've got a baby that feeds all the time, if you've got twins, if you've got twins, if you have a baby with jaundice, trust your gut if you feel like something's not right. And if your healthcare provider's like, it's fine, see another one.

Yeah, just double check. Because lactation is preventative. It's preventative healthcare for a reason. If you just, just in case, I can't tell you how many times I've had people come in and be like, there's probably nothing wrong, but just in case, could you just give us the once over? And I will do everything, soup to nuts, top to bottom.

Just looking for anything, and I look in the baby's mouth, and I see if we have an oral restriction, and if we do, I decide whether or not we care about it, or if it's going to be a later problem, and we'll do a weighted feed with a caveat that that's just one feed out of 24 hours. Right, right. I mean, I think it's great, and it's really great when we have access to that, and, I really encourage parents to, to consider that.

And also, of course, like, even if you see a lactation professional and you're like, I don't know, I just still don't feel right, don't feel like that was, you know, an assessment that was reassuring to me. Okay, reach out to somebody else. Reach out to a friend. I'm not being heard. Oh, you know what we did forget about?

The babies that spit up all the time. But the parents, this one freaks the parents out. This one's the gray area. Spit up on its own, we don't really care about, unless it's paired with other things. So if your baby is so spitty that they can't It's like spit up and less poops. Yeah. Spit up and less pees.

Spit up and crying at the breast incessantly. Crying with a raspy cry. Basically like spitting up so much that they're losing weight. Most of the time they're not. And I think like that's really the key for this is a lot of these factors we talked about kinda in these last 15 minutes or so. on their own, not alarming, just kind of make us look a little closer paired with any other one.

And I'm like, let's do something now. Yeah. How about that? Like today. And then Hopefully in a couple more days, it'll be better. And just so you know, it's not anything you did. No. That's just the baby you got. It sure is. Yeah, this is the baby you got, and the good news is, the earlier you catch it, the less time we have to do that intervention most of the time.

And like, I think we've both had a baby like this. Oh, hell yeah. Our first babies. Why? Why was Who sent a 25 year old Heather home with a 36 weeker who was 5 pounds and 13 ounces with a nipple shield? Who left 26 year old Maureen alone on a mountaintop with a baby who just like couldn't transfer milk?

Yeah. Good times. Great times. Yeah. I mean, we've been there and we felt that anxiety and had like no clue where to go or how to fix it. Yeah. And it's awful because every time I'm telling you every time I went to the pediatrician who I actually really liked as a person. It was, Oh, he's just a boy. He's just a upset baby.

And whenever I went to my midwife, who was great, she was like, you know, I hear you, but this, this just isn't my specialty. Like, I feel like if there's a problem here, it's beyond my training. And I'm like, okay, who can I go to? There was nobody. Yeah. Yeah, there's nobody. Did you know then, and so this is 2015, not that long ago, there was one IBCLC servicing four counties for WIC offices.

I'm not surprised. And it was so, and it was like, oh yeah, she's in the Randolph County office every three weeks. One day. That's crazy. Yeah, that's crazy. And you know, the, the thing is most of the time, the babies and the moms, if you just don't give up, like it sort of works itself out over time, but not without a lot of long term anxiety about it.

So often not without formula use or not without exclusive pumping or something like that where, you know, had we been able to identify a problem and intervene earlier. We probably could have then come back to a place where we were, you know, at your feeding goals, whether it was exclusive breastfeeding or combo feeding or whatever you want it to be doing.

Yeah. And also more than anything, I'm just always going for peace. You know, like, does your feeding relationship feel peaceful? If not, just go get an appointment and just make sure everything's okay. If every time you go to nurse your baby, it causes you anxiety and that little seed in your brain goes, like, what if it's not enough?

Then go get it checked out. You're not crazy. You're just a good mom. Yeah, absolutely. All right. That's, we'll get off our soapbox now. Yes. Well, this was kind of a shorter episode today, but I hope that, You know, you listen and you're like, and, and for the, you know, probably a third of our listeners out there are like, okay, my gut was right.

I'm going to call, you know. baby's doctor tomorrow. Good. You go do that. We support you. Message us on our social media. If you want to talk about it more or send us an email or whatever or book an appointment with either one of us. The link to book is always in the show notes. Absolutely. We can help you online.

I think to wrap up the episode today, I want to give an award to A really wonderful local doula to Nicole, who is wrapping up a surrogate pregnancy right now, which is really incredible. And I know it's been very hard work for her and a very rewarding experience. And I just hope for her that her birth is very smooth and that her postpartum is even smoother.

And I just wanted to give her the shout out today to say amazing work. Badass. Incredible. Absolutely. Great job, Nicole. It's, I can't imagine a more beautiful gift to give somebody. than the baby that they've been wanting and hoping for years. That's awesome. Well, thank you guys for tuning in to this lovely episode of the Milk Minute.

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